Ep. 298: Superstar Roundabout
The Basketball Jones — The Fix — Episode 298 (.mp3)
On today’s show, Skeets and I discuss if the Nuggets are that bad, or the Lakers are just that good; if Chris Bosh is a franchise player; why Tracy McGrady feels so blue all the time; what gives Mike Bibby the right to criticize C’s fans when he plays in a library; and much, much more. Enjoy!
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The Basketball Jones is a NBA blog and podcast, written and recorded five times a week by J.E. Skeets, Tas Melas and Jason Doyle. Comments, questions and cold hard cash are always welcome and much appreciated. Contact us.
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There’s no way Bosh is a franchise player. I know it sounds funny, but Bosh doesn’t have that superhero ability to make his teammates around him better. Give him credit for trying his damnedest to get his team and fans excited, but there’s a big difference between ‘Rah rah, let’s go Raps’ YouTube videos and being that cerebral, focused talent a la KG, Kobe, Paul. He’s a 1b player…
OOH THE DRAMATIX–I like the friendly little nod to MSR with the “bang the boards” comment; I figured it was just a matter of time before you guys semi-alluded to your only competition…
Bosh is a franchise player, look at the team, he IS the franchise player. But is he worthy of the title and what it entails? I think so, he is more quite, but I like that quite persistance. I think the problem is the Raps are too soft, too many European players (don’t get me wrong I love the international flavour), but look at at Bargiani, delf, etc. You need physical play, hussle and they lack that, but Bosh is the one, really the ONLY ONE who is giving that maybe with the exception of Calderon (love that guy).
One of the reasons Bosh is not looked at as a “superstar” player is propaganda, Raps aren’t as televised as say the LAKERS, or BOSTON which have more exposure. I tell you the moment Bosh goes to another more popular team like that he will blow up.
So you’re telling me Kobe wasn’t the franchise player when the Lakers were bombing and not even getting to the playoffs? Honestly, what a bunch of bull.
Bosh is a franchise player like Ginobili is a franchise player — except that I would take Manu 10 out of 10 times to close a game for me, or to strap a team to his back in a must win situation.
Bosh is a great player with great abilities, but he is playing with a great point guard (most of the time) and some solid role players and has had trouble doing something in the playoffs.
As for the last shot, it was a weak move. He should have taken it to the rack and either gotten fouled or made the basket. Not that Simmons is always right, but he put the same thing on KG: Duncan ALWAYS seems to get to the line or get a basket by moving forward, where as KG tends to take a weak, long range shot.
(for the record, to clarify my comment, Ginobili is NOT a franchise player — though he is damn good)
I don’t think it’s really that important whether you classify Bosh as a “franchise” player or not. It’s not really a tag that improves the Raptors’ situation. What’s assuredly true is that without better teammates, Bosh ain’t goin’ nowhere. Right now you have Jose Calderon, Chris Bosh, Jason Kapono and Andrea Bargniani (sp?). The way I see it, those four are the only four who would be (or have the chance to be) notable contributors on a championship team.
Now, Bargniani’s chance is hinged heavily on his potential and hopeful growth, and Kapono is only useful in that “hit the one three pointer with fifty seconds left in game six of the conference finals” sort of way. So ultimately, only Bosh and Calderon are the things I’d classify as a sure bet. They’re the only two players the Raps have right now who figure to stand tall against the other elite position players in the league.
Stop smoking the cock. If Bosh is not a franchise player because of his teams result then neither was KG until he was teamed up with 2 other all-stars. If you’ve only seen him play on national telecasts, then youre an idiot. I saw Peja pretty much shut down Lebron recently, so I guess Ill base all my impressions on that from now on.
ChrisWiz makes the same point with Kobe who looks different with 2 other all-stars, a stabilizing veteran like Fish and an upcoming stud like Bynum than he did when he was chucking 80pts with Smush, Kwame and Chris Mihm.
Yes, Bosh’ big problem is visibility down south and the fact that he looks like a brontosaurus with the long neck and small head. (Calderon is a true leader but he looks like the pizza guy. Neither have that WWE sneer which of course is the only way you can tell if someone is a real leader or not.)
The Raptors franchise carried the stench and the poisonous atittude of Vince Carter (its a credit that he didnt turn out bad). Bosh took over that putrid team (getting 9 new players in one year helped with the Knicks like stench) and has averaged 22.5 pts the past 3 seasons. As far not being as celebral as others, how the fuck do you know?
Having seen him play REGULARLY, he is more constant than when he was younger, he is both a calming influence and a motivating teammate whenhe has to adn while I wasnt sure at first if he was a franchise player, these past three seasons have convince me otherwise. He conducts himself as a pro adn no he is not a physically dominating PF a la K-Mart or KG but definitely is no Pau Gasol in the paint. That 18 ft miss was a regular part of his arsenal and a good one too. So all the ‘experts’ on TV proved is how little they know what his game is about.
He missed a shot in crunch time. All the franchise players do at some point. But he is the guy you want to take the last shot for TO just like C-Webb is the guy you WOULDNT want to take the same shot even though it was his favorite as well.
What the fuck is too many europeans? Are the Heat too collegey? Are the Knicks too black? Are we gonna play that game? You pick the ‘athletic’ players and Ill go for the ‘intelligent’ ones? I can play stereotypes just as well as anyone.
Find me tougher SOBs than Garbo or Jose in the league. Rasho is who he is. Not a starter but a smart vet who plays within himself. Delfino is a fiesty puta. So I guess you are referring to the italian salami Bargnani or maybe Anthony Parker since he played pro overseas and sort of looks white.
Toronto HAD to go the euro route since its much easier to get players to go to Oklahoma than to get yanks to play thousands of kilometres away from the US border.
An remember that until this year, the big knock against KG was that his ‘intensity was a problem in the 4th, where he would be too tightly wound’ which was the same as saying he would choke in the 4th.
Teammates make franchise players stand out.
@ Rob: Valid and interesting points, though I’ll politely sidestep the stereotypes talk.
An [sic] remember that until this year, the big knock against KG was that his ‘intensity was a problem in the 4th, where he would be too tightly wound’ which was the same as saying he would choke in the 4th.
To be fair, that’s still the knock on KG, and will be until he actually has to hit a crunch time shot in a game that means something — Skeets pulled Bob Ryan’s Boston Globe column on BDL today, citing the ridiculous stat that 47 of the Celts’ 68 wins this season have been by double digits, and in many of the others, Allen and Pierce have been the ones delivering late-game daggers. Doesn’t make KG any less great, but to say that he’s exorcised that particular criticism would be untrue.
I haven’t seen Bosh enough to analyze your arguments, so I won’t. I’ll just say that I’ve liked what I’ve seen of him when I’ve seen it, and that nine times out of 10 I like my chances when my best player gets to take a shot that’s in his game with the clock winding down.
How can we worry about Bosh when Kobe Bryant is dressing like Chevy Chase in Caddy Shack?
Thanks, Skeets and Rob for reminding us that this is a team sport. Bosh’s teammates just aren’t great across the board, a fact which is highlighted by Mitchell’s coaching issues (playing Ford and Bargnani), which don’t help Bosh any. These kind of arguments, highlighted by MVP arguments, kill me. (I need to stop listening to simmons podcast). “Well, this guy makes his teammate better” “this guy is more emotional” “this guy is the better two way player”…who the fuck cares?
The only thing that should matter is the championship. That is truly the only barometer for success.
Also…what the fuck is a franchise player? The idea that you can build a franchise around one player is ridiculous. You need at least two great players and a compliment of great role players.
Whoaaa Boy! things are getting heated.
Firstly what does being a franchise player mean? Does it mean the best 30 players in the league (the first 30 that would be picked if the league were allocated by fantasy draft (for that single season not long term with potential and stuff)), theoretically one for each franchise. Because that’s basically the all stars + a few extras (essentially the all stars and guys who would have been but for injuries).
In anycase Bosh is clearly in that category.
If it’s the leagues top 10 then it’s probably borderline (without thinking this through at all). I imagine he’s about 10-15. And for me that’s a franchise player.
And Tas asked whether Bosh is better than Melo. The answer is yes. Bosh shoots a higher %, shoots a better 3% and FT%, he gets a lot more rebounds (even in an off year for Bosh in that respect and a highwater mark year for Melo) and he defends better. How is he not better. Melo gets the big press (or used to, I think he’s fading now) because of where he was picked and what he did in the NCAA and because he was an SF coming out in the same class as Bron. But he’s a scorer. That’s all. He a rich man’s Glen Robinson.
Plus Bosh is a leader and a team guy you can get behind…Melo’s a bitch. A drunk, selfish bitch. I’m not bitter.
Impressive use of [sic] there, Devine
@ Brooks: Forever a douchebag at heart, I guess.
That isn’t Chevy chase, that is the pimp of the year. I just don’t see Fishbone in the background. “Bitch better have my money!” Or in this case, bitch better have my bunghole. Shhhh!, don’t tell. Lakers victories make me sic [sic]. Jerry Sloan, please break some kneecaps for me.
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