Ep. 326: Good Loss, Bad Loss
The Basketball Jones — NBA Finals, Game 3 — Episode 326 (.mp3)
On today’s show, Tas and I breakdown Game 3 of the Lakers-Celtics NBA Finals. We discuss, among other things, whether this was a “good” loss in the Celtics eyes, the Lakers aggressive perimeter defense, Kobe guarding Rondo, and the whistles. Oh, we also touch on that Donaghy garbage. Enjoy.
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23 Responses to “Ep. 326: Good Loss, Bad Loss”
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The Basketball Jones is a NBA blog and podcast, written and recorded five times a week by J.E. Skeets, Tas Melas and Jason Doyle. Comments, questions and cold hard cash are always welcome and much appreciated. Contact us.
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Latest Episodes
- Ep. 329: Finals, Game 6 – Wednesday, June 18th
- Ep. 328: Finals, Game 5 – Monday, June 16th
- Ep. 327: Finals, Game 4 – Friday, June 13th
- Ep. 326: Finals, Game 3 – Wednesday, June 11th
- Ep. 325: Finals, Game 2 – Monday, June 9th
Kobe might have played more aggressive and did ‘exactly what he was supposed to do,’ but they’re not going to be able to win the series if he continues to play this way.
Kobe has been wonderful all season, and I’ve looked forward to the Lakers capping-off the night several times a week all season. However, I *don’t* like this Kobe, and I doubt many people do as well. He’s playing like his pre-2007 selfish self.
This is not the MVP we’ve seen all year long.
why is it so inconceivable for you to think that the L has had a MAJOR role in fixing game?
If anything, would it not make more sense for them to have a much bigger interest in certain outcomes then the refs.
I really don’t understand some people who are convinced in this day and age, with these huge contracts, the US economy and the fact the NBA is a business first and foremost, that there is no way the NBA is rigged. Can people really be this dumb?
For now, it’s all he said, she said. That’s it.
So, until we learn more, why would I ever WANT to believe that the NBA — not the refs, the NBA — has had a MAJOR role in fixing games?
I’m trying to follow the logic here, Tas.
So, both teams played poorly offensively. But it’s more likely that the bad defensive team will maintain their control over Pierce and Garnett who had a terrible night, which is an anomaly, than the Celtics to reassert control over a team they’ve held down.
So the bad defensive team will do a better job defensively than the good defensive team?
The Celtics have kind of, sort of proven that as long as their offense is clicking to any degree, they can handle this squad, outside of Kobe. It wasn’t last night, so they lost. I think Game 4 is a great opportunity for LA to finally put it together, but right now, Boston is still the better team. By far.
Ironically, Breen wouldn’t say “sucks” on air, but Kobe said “shit” in his post-game interview.
The NBA manipulates games… I don’t see how anybody who has followed this league can deny that. I really can’t. The conversation for people that love this game should be that the degree of manipulation isn’t catastrophic to the brand, it’s not like every series is tainted and certainly not every game.
But when we deny it wholesale I think we do our league a disservice. We need to acknowledge it and figure out how we can help to get it the hell out of basketball.
Maybe Ralph Nader will help us.
http://drunkenaudible.com/post/37966403/the-nba-donaghy-and-ralph-nader
I get you now Skeets.
You also believe that the WWF is not scripted and the wrestling is real.
Everything in action movies is 100% possible in real life.
There is no steroids in baseball.
Highlanders run amongst us.
etc etc
I get it.
You obviously don’t. But good try.
Yeah… onekingdown… I don’t think you do.
Look, I’m firmly in the “manipulation” camp, but there’s a lot of people that aren’t doing this side any favors. The games that are by and large fair in this league far outnumber the games that aren’t. This is not a black and white issue, there are many, many shades of gray. My point is that the NBA started down a slippery slope a long time ago to turn this into the product it is today, and there are some major issues in the game.
And while it’s gonna take some time for people to see the reality of this unfortunate situation, it doesn’t help to start making fun and personally attacking people who are a little hesitant to believe in what many to believe is a conspiracy. Especially not Skeets.
This issue is less a conspiracy than it is an example of how a business policy (superstar system, team favoritism) has spun out of control and fallen out of balance.
At the end of the day I think we’re going to see a major overhaul of how the NBA handles it’s officiating and I think we’ll see a new commissioner within 2 - 3 years. Stern has had a great run, but he’s going to have to put a new face on this league.
When 57% percent of the public thinks the NBA is “rigged” there is a major problem no matter what any of us think is the truth.
I like the new addition of the “something the viewers may not have seen” feature… People need to know the hard-hitting truth about Phil Jackson’s upper chest sweat
sharky… I understood what he said.
Until there is concrete proof that games are “manipulated”, something there will never come about, just like transparency won’t, he CHOOSES to believe that the games are not rigged. Even with a ridiculous amount of situations that hint at manipulation, he chalks it all up as human error - not intentional fixing. He CHOOSES to believe that these refs are just making bad calls. That they operate at a level of a rec game in a professional league. When there is HUMAN error.. usually there is evidence to support it - like bad angles etc. When there is not.. there is only one clear answer.
Yes, in the PHX series a few years ago when Nash is screaming TO with the ref 1 foot away from him, and the ref hears NOTHING.. that is human error. As was the blatant Walton foot out of bounds that he failed to see.. and countless other “human errors” that only a blind deaf and mute person could possibly make in the same situation.
Hey you wanna believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy and Jesus… yes that is your CHOICE.
Believe me… I get it.
Fair enough onekingdown. And you know I agree, I just think it’s important to sort of be gentle with people as this stuff comes to light. Personally I’ve been really harsh with some people and I feel bad about it.
The people that deserve our wrath are the shit-eating corporate shills who try and peddle notions like “agressiveness” as being a valid reason and dismiss and ignore the truth in the interest of making sure the whole thing stays together.
The corporate world better learn quick that the paradigm of media control in this world is rapidly coming to an end, or at least it’s becoming marginalized. I’m fascinated with the greater implications of this scandal on the national dialog as a whole, especially when it ties into a myriad of scandals in the MLB and NFL. It’s not just 60 minutes making things uncomfortable and holding bastions of power accountable anymore, but a great teeming mass of people with keyboards, Internet connections and a capability for critical thought and dialog.
And in my case some really killer cocaine.
in reaction to the talk about Tim Donaghy’s allegations and Skeet’s post over on BDL about an NBA conspiracy, I have for you undeniable proof of questionable fouls heard from Donaghy himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDlVuOKn0uU
enjoy.
Skeets, softest quote of Nas EVER, On that intro. And why the fuck do you guys hate on eddie house? cuz he’s married to bibby’s sister and has a cool son? give it a break. great shooter and conscious point guard, he’s the equilibrium between rondo and cassell.
Did anybody else see The Machine bury Jesus into the ground and sway the J? Nasty. Machine must say sorry.
I don’t see how blogging would force the NBA to be more transparent. It certainly hasn’t done much over the past eight years and I don’t see how it will over the next eight years unless the NBA believes it’s in its own interest (see: potential profits) to become more transparent to the public. Is blogging going to make people not watch the NBA or not buy jerseys? I kinda doubt it but I guess we’ll find out.
Other than that we just have to hope the next commish doesn’t have mob ties we don’t know about.
@Sharky
I play, coach and ref basketball. I started when I was 6, and have been going at it year round for 20 years. Until I started reffing two years ago, I thought that I knew everything about ball. Then I found out that being on the sidelines and reffing give you hugely different perspectives on the game. I have no doubt that missed calls are just that, missed calls, and not a conspiracy. It can often be something as simple as the ref turning his/her head to change direction when running which can lead to an obvious foul not being called.
Refs take care of a specific part of the floor, so if someone in the paint gets hammered/hacked and the baseline ref doesn’t call it, the other refs often won’t either, because its not ‘their area’ and they aren’t watching it.
Reffing is not easy, blown calls happen all the time,without intention, even ones that seem incredibly obvious to us sitting on our couches.
whoops. I meant @ onekingdom. Sorry for double post.
tony i’m not really arguing those calls..I did say that some are human error, if you read what i wrote, and when those happen there is usually a reason supported by evidence.
What bothers me are the other calls that are “missed” Like some guy getting his arm chopped off 2 inches from the refs face and no call… or the Steve Nash and Walton incident.. look it up on you tube.. dude was staring right at him and was a foot away… don’t tell me he didn’t hear him scream TO.
Hi Tony-
I’m writing pretty extensively about this topic all over the blogs and on my RSS feed at http://drunkenaudible.com so I’ll (try to) be brief about it here.
My position is that there is sort of “natural” bad officiating or missed calls like you describe. I’ve been around the sport in various capacities for long enough to know that. There’s even maybe the odd awful call because a ref and a player or coach get a little personal. All that stuff is to be expected and I really don’t have a problem with that. It’s “how the ball bounces” and it “all comes out in the wash”. I get that.
I’m talking about a whole other animal. One that, in my belief, isn’t in every game or every series in the NBA, but it’s there nonetheless and I think that is gonna be proven at some point no matter what happens with this Donaghy thing.
The biggest problem with this other animal is that it puts into question the sort of “natural” officiating mistakes you’re talking about. It makes crazed fans think that everybody is out to get their team when it loses and creates an atmosphere where it’s hard to distinguish what is part of the game and what is part of the script.
As a fan I don’t accept “you win some, you lose some” (I gotta stop with these damn quotation marks) when it comes to this other animal. It’s gotten out of balance.
I believe in the beginning there was the “star system” where good players became great with the benefit of the calls. There was the rookies-get-the-shaft-on-the-calls and even the sort of reasonable home court advantage element. But it’s a slippery slope and the NBA has slid (big time) to a place where, AT TIMES, certain teams get a major benefit to assist ratings and place them in a certain series. Also some series are guaranteed to run for X amount of games by having a team have some incredible advantage at the line and on the court in a game or two.
Once the cat is out of the bag with the evil breed of bad calls, the sort of baseline amount of “natural” bad calls you talk about are cast under a foul light indeed. And the whole thing begins to fester. And it brings me sadness.
Matt,
Clearly, Boston’s defense is far more proven, not only in the Playoffs but also in the regular season, than the Lakers’ offense. It makes perfect sense to think that something as proven as Boston’s defense is bound to continue, but that something as shaky and inconsistent as the Lakers pathetic offense will struggle to bounce back.
I’m actually a little disappointed that people are focusing so much on Odom and Gasol. It wasn’t just them — all 4 starters except for Kobe were terrible, combining for 7-for-28 shooting — 25%.
Is that likely to continue? KG and PP are no more likely to bounce back than, you know… most of the Lakers’ team.
Also, pay some attention to Utah and San Antonio — the Lakers may not be as consistent on defense, but when they have needed it, it has been there. But hey, last night was probably just a weird quirk. So were Utah and San Antonio.
Also, guys, question for you:
How do you expect Kobe to get his usual assist numbers when the other four starters, plus Walton and Turiaf, combine to shoot 7-for-32? Kinda hard to get assists when the people you pass to don’t make the shot.
Also, Kobe took only 20 shots. That’s 2 below his season average — you know, that MVP season in which he impressed everyone so much by sharing the ball and trusting his teammates — and 3 below his Playoffs average — the same Playoffs in which, through three rounds, he has everyone in awe.
What was he doing the rest of the time? Just standing there? Sleeping on the sidelines? Is it possible that the reason he took only 20 shots yet only got one assist was, you know, the fact that everyone not named Kobe or Sasha made a grand total of 11 shots.
And that’s not because they weren’t shooting. They took 39 shots. That’s 28.2% shooting for everyone outside of Kobe and Sasha. Pretty hard to get assists off of that.
I wonder what the over/ under is on how many times Skeets and Tas have said ‘playoffs’ during the playoffs.
Man, why the fuck do you ever play my phonecalls? I seriously appreciate it, but I feel like a goddamn drunk idiot; speakin of which, I’m in chicago, and I’m blown away by the incredible amount of MJ jerseys and nothing else (though I could’ve bought a wallace jersey at a sports athority for 40 bucks).
Anyways…this town says “Rose, mothafucka” instead of “Michael J. Billingsworth Beasley.” And I don’t know what to say about the Lakers/Celts except “goddamn, I kind of love Lamar Odom.”
Well guys…I’m trashed. I love you like a pedophile father loves his son’s friends.